this post was submitted on 27 Nov 2025
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Because you don't want people to know when to do Division and Subtraction? 😂
No it isn't, but they are both binary operators.
And where are they going to do Division and Subtraction in the left to right if you've left them out? 🙄
Because division is multiplication, and subtraction is addition.
2/2is the same as2*½2-2is the same as2+(-2)Well, as I already said multiple times: Division = Multiplication and Subtraction = Addition, therefore they would be doing them together, left to right. As in:
9-3+2would not confuse anyone who learned "Addition → Subtraction", as it does right now.No it isn't.
And you still have to do both
They're equal in value, they're not the same
You got that the wrong way around. Brackets have only been used in Maths for a few centuries now
And you were wrong every time you said it.
Not if you left them out of the mnemonic and they didn't know when to do them
Yes, it is.
Quote the part where I said you didn't.
They are the same.
No, they're not.
Mnemonic without understanding what you're doing doesn't help. Which is why people get confused and argue online that you must do addition before subtraction, or the other way around, depending on what the mnemonic they learned was.
Understanding that subtraction is just the addition of a negative number solves this problem.
No it isn't 😂
The part where you said to leave it out of the mnemonic "It should be limited - like Orders - to only Multiplication and Addition"
Nope. 2/2 is not the same as 2*½. Do you need glasses or something??
Because 2-2 came first, before we started using Brackets in Maths, by several hundred years
You glibly ignoring the history and rules of Maths 🙄
Still wrong 😂
That's EXACTLY what the mnemonics are for! 😂 Don't need to understand it, just follow the steps
No-one gets confused or angry about that. 😂 There are textbooks that specifically teach to do it that way
I have never seen any textbook say to do Subtraction before Addition, everyone is taught Addition first
Understanding that you can do them in any order proves there is no problem 😂
Yes it is.
If you understand what is multiplication and what is addition, then you know what this doesn't suggest ignoring division or subtraction at all.
OK, teach me. What's the result of
2/2and what's the result of2*½?Explain how is that relevant to the discussion. Or to the example I gave, where brackets are only used for readability sake, they're not changing the results in any way. You might as well note that as
-2+2- see? No scary brackets anymore, same result.Well... yes, because we're not talking about the history, we're talking about the current rules.
This whole thread stemmed from the fact that some people were taught PEMDAS while others where taught PEDMAS.
Are you suggesting that the order of operations depends on your maths teacher?
Wow, let me be the first to welcome you to the Internet! I know it might be jarring at first, but give it time and you'll get used to the weirdness! Glad to see you joining!
Great! Now find one that actually talks about that, instead of one that talks about the addition of similar monomials, which is a different thing altogether.
Actually, you know what? Never mind - instead just read the part you posted, but slower. Here, let me highlight the important bit:
"Addition of similar monomials is performed by taking the arithmetical difference between the total of the positive and the total of the negative coefficients, giving it the sign of the numerically greater total, and annexing it to the common literal part"
Which actually reinforces my point.
See? This is exactly what I was talking about. Addition is NOT first, unless it's the first on the right. If subtraction is first, you do subtraction first.
Again, let me extend a warm welcome on behalf of everyone on the Internet. I believe you'll have a great time here.
This guy thinks 3(2+1) gets the wrong answer if you do 3(3) instead of 3*2+3*1. They will never learn anything and they will never shut up about it. This trolling bullshit is the only thing I've ever seen them comment.
Proceed apace if slapping that down entertains you - but proceed knowing it's all you're going to get.
Oh, I realised that a long ago, but it's actually a kind of "mental exercise" for me. :) Cheers!
Yep, mental gymnastics left, right, and centre 😂
Don't worry, friend! One day you'll look back at this and think "damn, I really was an idiot back then!"
Says person who has run out of mental gymnastics that can be applied. I'll take that as an admission of being wrong then
You do you, friend. Whatever makes you feel better about your ignorance.
Says person who proved themselves wrong, and is now withdrawing from the conversation to hide their ignorance 😂
I know that you finally understood what I was talking about, as shown by your replies in the other comment, but it's OK to keep it all to a single thread.
other way around dude, as proven by screenshots
So you want to keep it here, because the other is full of screenshots proving you wrong and you want to ignore them?? 🤣🤣🤣
Again with the reading comprehension issues? No, friend, I'm suggesting you keep responding where we were already talking, instead of here.
No I don't, liar. Hilarious that now you're having to resort to making things up 😂
Which can definitely give wrong answers
1/3(2+1)=1/(6+3)=(1/9)
1/3(3)=1/(3x3)=(1/9) same answer
1/3x2+3x1=(3/2)+3 Oops! WRONG ANSWER 😂
All you're going to get from me is facts, correct, as opposed to you who can't come up with any facts! 😂
Calls me a liar, then says exactly what I said they think. Troll.
Fuck off.
Nope! I never said you get the wrong answer with 3(3) - noted you were unable to show where I supposedly said that - so no, I did not say what you said I think 🙄
You can say that as much as you want and you'll still be just as wrong. Noted that, yet again, you are unable to cite any Maths textbooks that agree with you
Again, the mnemonics are for people who don't understand, which would be people like you! 😂
What's the result of 2+2? What's the result of 1+3? Are 2+2 and 1+3 the same? No! 😂 2 apples + 2 oranges = 4 pieces of fruit. 3 apples and 1 orange = 4 pieces of fruit. Is 2 apples and 2 oranges the same as 3 apples and 1 orange? 😂 Anything else you want to embarrass yourself about not understanding?
You're the one who brought it into the conversation - you tell me! 😂
You'll find most people find that less readable. Welcome to why textbooks never use them
Just making it less readable.
You are when you start dragging brackets into something that never used brackets for hundreds of years
which haven't changed at all in all that time 😂 2-3 has never and still does not require brackets, same as when Arithmetic was first written.
and everyone was taught that the order of DM/MD does not matter. If it did then one of them would not exist
No! You might want to work on your comprehension as well 😂
Been here longer than you probably, and know full well what you said is a lie 😂
Already posted a screenshot of one. You really need to work on your comprehension
Set all the pronumerals to 1, and guess what you have - the exact same thing 😂 I see you don't understand how pronumerals work either
BTW you still have not cited any textbook whatsoever that agrees with anything that you have said, in case you needed that reminder 😂
says person who doesn't understand that pronumerals can equal 1. 🙄
Yep, 1a-2a+3a-4a=a((1+3)-(2+4)). Now set a=1 and guess what you have? 😂
You telling me you don't understand what that means? +4-2=+2. +2-4=-2. Not complicated
proves you're wrong 😂
You know the textbook just literally told you it is, right?? 😂
It's first regardless of where it is. Did the textbook says it depends on where it is? No 😂
Where nearly half of adults have forgotten the rules of Maths, and everyone else knows there is no problem 😂
That's the thing - I'm not wrong.
Yet again? You never asked for citations. I also didn't have to, as you did it for me with your screenshot.
But here you go:
Here's another source if you're allergic to Wikipedia.
Again, the mnemonics, when taught without appropriate context, cause confusion in people like you, who think that the order of operations is set to: Multiplication → Division → Addition → Subtraction, instead of being (M or D, start from the left) → (A or S, start from the left).
Again, the mnemonics, when taught without appropriate context, cause people to think that
9-3+2is4, when the actual result is8, because they think that they have to calculate the addition first.WTF are you talking about? Where did you get the 1 and 3 from? Also... Do you not know what fractions are...?
You're so very, very confused by all of this...
I can see why you are finding them less readable - you have absolutely fundamental lacks in understanding of maths. And, sorry to burst your bubble, but maths textbooks all over the world use brackets all the time.
Not if you understand what they mean. Which is why they're confusing for you, I guess.
Now that I know that you have a fundamental lack of understanding how maths works, I apologise for using the brackets earlier. Let's try this: you can write
2 - 2as-2 + 2, or - a slightly less legible version - as2 + -2. You'll get the same result, and this inversion is a perfectly "legal" mathematical operation. Which shows you how addition and subtraction are equal.One more time, let me welcome you to the Internet, I'm sure you'll have a great time here!
We were not talking about monomials.
If you set the pronumerals in addition/subtraction problems to 1, you would have something entirely different. And if you want to do
2x - 2xwherex = 1, then your own posted fragment explains that you only need to calculate the arithmetic difference between the total postive/negative coefficients.The arithmetic difference between
-2 + 2and2 - 2is the same, proving - again - that subtraction is equal to addition of a negative.Which is my point. Which you are proving.
I didn't have to, you did it for me.
Now do
-(2+4) + (1+3)and guess what you have?I already suggested this: read it again, but slower.
says person who has no evidence whatsoever to show that they are correct, so as I said, no matter how many times you repeat it, you are still wrong 😂
And the questions I did ask you didn't answer anyway, because you know in both cases it proves you wrong. Notice how I didn't need you to ask me for evidence to produce it? That's what people who are backed up by facts can do 😂
Which proved you were wrong 😂
Well, here you go proving you have a severe comprehension problem anyway... 😂
Yep, gives the same result, but does not say that the number and it's inverse are the same thing 😂
Which also wasn't a Maths textbook 😂 So far you're only proving my point that you can't cite any Maths textbooks that agree with you
Which they never are
Nope, no-one thinks that. Addition first for 9-3+2 is +(9+2)-3=+11-3=8 same correct answer as left to right, which is why the textbook teaches you to do it that way 😂
Which you're demonstrated repeatedly that you don't, and here we are
Which is a totally valid thing to do, as is taught by the textbook 🙄
Which is also a valid thing to do. That's the whole point, it does not matter which order you do addition and subtraction 😂
And when they do calculate the addition first, they get an answer of 8, as I just proved a few comments back 😂 Add all the positive numbers, then subtract the total of all the negative numbers. This is so not complicated, and yet you seem to have trouble understanding it
From an example of how 2+2 and 1+3 aren't the same thing, even though they equal the same value, which you are now trying to avoid addressing because you know it proves you are wrong 😂
I'm starting to wonder if you do, given you think 2/2 is the same thing as 2x½ - one has a fraction, the other doesn't, but you think they are the same thing 🙄
says person not remembering that they brought it up to begin with... 😂
says person who thinks doing addition first for 9-3+2 is 4 😂
Not for 2-2 they don't. Go ahead and cite one. I'll wait
Which proves my point that you can do addition and subtraction in any order, given you just admitted that 2-2 and -2+2 give the same result 😂
deflect from the point, yet again
No, we were talking about textbooks teaching to do addition first, and you then deflected into talking about monomials, because you knew it proved you were wrong 😂
The exact same thing as an expression written without pronumerals 😂 I see you're still not understanding how pronumerals work then
and thus proving again that they can be done in any order 😂 It's so hilarious watching you prove yourself wrong
No, you're actually proving my point 🤣
I only posted things that prove you wrong, but apparently I don't need to because you are proving yourself wrong 🤣
The exact same answer, -2, again proving you can do them in any order 🤣
It still says add all positive numbers first, then subtract the total of the negative numbers. I'm not sure what you think is going to happen - are you expecting the words to magically change if you read it slowly? 🤣
Yes, because I finished third grade in primary school. Do you also expect evidence of gravity?
Go back and read the comments again. I know they're getting lengthy, but I'm sure if you put your mind to it, you can find the answers.
Yeah, if you ignore what the text says and just assume it does what you want, then sure, it proves me wrong. However, if you actually read the letters on the screenshot, you'll find that it does not, in fact, prove me wrong, it does the opposite.
Oh wow, so you're also incapable of scrolling down to the sources part of the article...?
Yeah, speaking of reading comprehension - I never said anything like that. I said that, in terms of the order of operations, addition/subtraction and multiplication/division are equal, because they can be inverted (subtraction into addition of negative numbers, division into multiplication of fractions) to achieve, as you observed, the exact same result. Which means that - if you ensure that children learn and understand that concept, you can skip subtraction and division from the mnemonics, because children will understand that - again, in terms of order of operations - division = multiplication, and subtraction = addition.
OK, how about this: let's do what grown up mathematicians do: prove that what I linked to is wrong.
One more time: welcome to the Internet, I'm sure you'll find many surprises here, but overall it's a pretty great place.
I like how you're doing exactly what I'm talking about while still saying I'm incorrect.
OK, sure, quote one example equation I did here that proves I'm not understanding these concepts. :)
But is not reinforced by the mnemonic itself. Reading comprehension, remember?
I'm glad I was able to explain this to you. You go ahead and pretend like you're explaining it to me, I'm just happy you finally managed to understand that.
See above.
Why are you bringing
1 + 3into the mix when the examples were2 + 2and2 * 2? What are you trying to say here?I'm going to ask you a couple of questions so you can research that and then pretend to explain them to me, like you did above:
2 / 2?2 * ½?There's no confusion from my side. I understand how brackets work and that was a perfectly valid use - for readability's sake.
Now you're just inventing things I never said. That's not nice.
It wasn't
2 - 2, tho. Or did you fail to read that correctly too?Again, I'm glad you're slowly getting to the point I was making. It's weird how you're still phrasing it like I was somehow wrong, but I'm just happy you learned something.
Considering that's exactly what I did, how do you see that as me not understanding pronumerals? I'm asking out of sheer curiosity at this point.
You're so cute when you're trying to turn this whole argument on its head after realising how silly your initial points were! <3
Which would explain why you don't know The Distributive Law, which is taught in Year 7
No, just evidence to back up your claims, but of course you don't have any
You know reading things again doesn't change what's written right?? No, you don't, since you kept asking me to re-read the part about doing all addition first, thinking somehow that was magically going to change if I read it again 😂
Nope! Hard to find when you didn't answer, and notably you've not done a screenshot of them, because they don't exist. Weird how you're the only one not able to back up anything of what you've said 😂
which you just did, again, because you know it proves you are wrong 😂 Why are you so afraid to quote it if you think it proves you are right? 😂
still say, do all addition first
Well, apparently you are, since there are no Maths textbooks listed in the sources 😂
Let's go to the screenshot...
Nope, see screenshot of you saying they are the same
Now you're just rehashing the same already-debunked rubbish. The whole point of the mnemonics is for those who don't understand, just follow these steps 🙄
Did that already with the textbooks and worked examples. Maybe you need to read it slowly? 😂
One more time, welcome to you can't debunk what I said, so you deflect
Nope. Again let's go to the screenshot...
See previous screenshot 😂
AS doesn't reinforce doing A before S? 😂
Yep, you've got none. You thought Wikipedia counted as a Maths textbook 😂
I knew it all along - you were the one saying that the brackets matter in PE(MD)(AS), which we've now comprehensively debunked 😂
Yep, you finally proved yourself wrong because the mental gymnastics weren't up to proving that brackets matter in PE(MD)(AS) 😂
No they weren't! You have such a short memory, no wonder you ended up contradicting yourself! 🤣 Let's go to the screenshot...
you can deflect again 😂
Nope, we proved it wasn't 😂
Let's go to the screenshot... 😂
Let's go to the screenshot, again...
Not me. See previous screenshot 😂
Nope. your point that brackets matter in PE(MD)(AS) is still wrong, as proven 😂
says person who proved it was wrong 😂
Nope! You claimed it was entirely different if you did that. Again, let's go to the screenshot...
says the person actually trying to do that, as proven by the screenshots 😂
Me: consistently using the Distributive Law throughout the thread.
You: "Which would explain why you don’t know The Distributive Law, which is taught in Year 7"
How does that work again?
I showed you two, you showed yourself one - how many more do you need?
True, but reading again carefully would change what you thought was written, friend.
OK, here's a challenge for you - quote the bit that says "do all addition first".
Awww, you're so cute! You think all maths knowledge only comes from school textbooks! <3
Ah, so you don't know what "context" is. Got it. I'll try to keep things easier to understand for you going forward.
In which case they will often make mistakes, as shown by the "9 minus whatever plus something" equation I did. Again, I get that you're only on your "day two on the Internet" so you're not aware of it, but these kinds of equations cause people A LOT of trouble.
Don't get me wrong - I get what you're saying. That if the people who don't understand the order of operations understood the Distributive Law, then their lack of understanding of the order of operations wouldn't matter. But, I hope, you get where this line of thinking fails, right?
Ah, so you're saying that a site teaching maths is wrong, and your proof is the fact that you don't understand how sentences work? Cool, cool.
Which proves what, in your mind...?
A is not before S. A is equal to S in the order of operations. As proven here, here, here or here, which also conveniently mentions the two different mnemonics in PEMDAS and BODMAS (where, I'm sure your keen eye will notice, the D and M are flipped).
Here's a short quote from the second to last source:
So, there's that.
No, I thought you were capable of checking the sources on the bottom of the article. My bad. But now I also understand that you wouldn't consider actual mathematical research as sources, because it needs to be a school book for you. I hope the university article links above will be good enough?
You have an extremely weird fixation on brackets, friend. The only thing we've debunked is your understanding of mathematical fundamentals and reading skills. :(
Oh no! You caught me on misremembering one of the couple of examples I gave you! NOOOOOO! My life is RUINED!
So now, again, why did you start talking about
1 + 3if the examples were2 - 2and2 / 2?Awww... You can't answer these questions? I mean, I'm not surprised considering what you've shown so far but I was hoping you'd at least try.
And where are the brackets, friend? Do your keen eyes see
(2-2)or whatever, or2+(-2)?But, as I see you'll just never let go of this misconception of yours, here you are:
You can see the exact same notation as I used, in the exact same context. When you read the rest of that Level 1 introductory lesson, you'll also learn that you can actually ONLY use brackets to denote negative numbers, like so:
2 + (2), which would equal to2 - 2. Incredible, I know!I mean... Come on - brackets DO matter in PEMDAS, they're the very first item on the list (Brackets == Parentheses). You're getting all confused here.
As to the notation of "PE(MD)(AS)" - you may be surprised to learn, but brackets used in the context of language don't mean the same thing as brackets used in the context of maths, which means that the "(MD)" doesn't somehow mean I was suggesting these should be considered to... always be in brackets? Like, I don't even know what you were trying to say here.
Again, it's OK to have a vivid imagination, but you're just making yourself look silly when you talk about it with others as if it's fact.
Yes, I agree, the way I worded that was poor. Setting pronumerals to 1 is the same as just removing them from the notation completely.
It's OK, you already understood the core concept of what I meant, I firmly believe that we can get you to understand the whole thing within a week! :)
Nope. Let's go to the screenshots again...
Nope, you showed Wikipedia, which is known to be wrong, as per Maths textbooks
Nope. Still says add all positive numbers first! 😂
Never said anything of the sort liar, which is why you're unable to quote me saying that. I did say to you, repeatedly, that you are unable to cite any Maths textbooks that support you, and so far you have proven that to be true, since you haven't cited any maths textbooks. You really do need to work on that poor comprehension of yours 😂
Nope! That was you! Here we go...
Says person who can't even remember what he said, despite me posting screenshots of him saying it 😂
In which you failed that anyone at all has ever done it like that, other than you 😂
Says person who can't show anyone having trouble with it, thus revealing himself as the Day 2 person 😂
Where you then went on to say something completely unrelated to anything I said, thus proving you don't get what I'm saying 😂
Which would maybe be why I never said anything of the sort 😂
Yep, there's a lot of them. Welcome to what happens when people don't have to have Maths qualifications to write a Maths website. Welcome to the Internet Day 2 person! 😂
Maths textbooks
So, it's not bedmAS and pemdAS?? 😂
Which means you can do them in any order, including doing A BEFORE S, a concept you are having a lot of trouble with 😂 having claimed that led people to get wrong answers, like 9-3+2=4, which so far you've not shown anyone making that mistake other than you 😂
and are not written as PE(MD)(AS) and BE(DM)(AS), which you claimed is important to remember, and still haven't backed up with any evidence whatsoever! 😂
Yep, as I've been telling you all along. So where's this bit about "it's important to remember PE(MD)(AS)" then? Not anywhere in this source 😂
Which doesn't support your argument that it's PE(MD)(AS), so there's that 😂
Which also weren't Maths textbooks, as I already pointed out to you 😂
Mr. Lack of Comprehension still not understanding the words MATHS TEXTBOOKS 🤣🤣🤣
Do you need to get your mum to read this out to you to spot the difference between the phrases "Maths textbooks" and "University article"? 😂
You were the one who made the claim about the brackets. I'm just debunking your rubbish claim about the brackets 😂
says someone who can't tell the difference between Maths textbooks, and any one of a dozen other things 😂
Lying is the word you're looking for, and more than a couple
Take you own advice - go back and read it slowly this time 😂 Still says the same thing as when I first said it
No, you can't defend your claim, so you keep deflecting
Speaking of being fixated on brackets 😂
Still not a Maths textbook. Have you noticed yet that you haven't been able to cite any Maths textbook that supports your claims?? 😂
That wasn't from a Maths textbook
It still won't be a Maths textbook
The proof is in this thread 😂
which means it is totally valid to add all positive numbers first, as per the textbook which had an example with pronumerals and did just that😂
says person who still doesn't understand what the words "Maths textbooks" MEANS 😂
Sorry, mate, TLDR.
I skimmed through it, I'm glad you learned some new concepts, still find it hilarious that you're then trying to turn it around and pretend like I didn't understand something, but it's all good fun.
Enjoy your newfound knowledge and maybe work on not being so prickly.
I'll take that as an admission of being wrong then
I've no idea whose comments you skimmed through, but clearly not mine. I've been saying the same thing from start to finish, and you eventually contradicted yourself 😂
says someone trying to pretend he did 😂
Whatever makes you feel better. :)
You incompetent fraud, that's a different person - me. It's easy to lose track when literally everyone is calling out your bullshit.
Here's you quoting a textbook that says to solve inside the brackets first, even without a mulitply sign.
Here's you quoting a textbook that says you must do the opposite of that.
And as a bonus, here's you getting 2(3+5)^2^ wrong.
I am looking for how to politely contact your instance's admins about your behavior.
That would be because you are replying to my reply to them and not my reply to you, which makes you the incompetent fraud 😂
says someone who actually lost track and is replying to my reply to someone else 😂
In other words, The Distributive Law, as I've been saying all along, yes, and your point is?
Nope! Says the exact same thing - Distribute BEFORE REMOVING BRACKETS which is exactly what the previous one did. I have no idea why you think they contradict each other 😂
Nope! Getting it right, Brackets before exponents, as per the order of operations rules, found in Maths textbooks 😂
Because there's something wrong with fact checking?? 😂 Students usually appreciate finding out where they went wrong, but not you, obviously, and somehow that's an issue for an admin?? 😂