Things are working great and you people need to quit complaining
this post was submitted on 27 Nov 2025
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I'd like to purchase some PORNOGRAPHY :)
The system is working even more efficiently than ever intended and needs to be dismantled and buried so it can never return
these are not two sides. The system is working as some intend so needs to be dismantled, at least large parts of it, to fix it.
People always forget, nuance exists.
Lemmy politics i find a bit confusing and maybe i dont understand it very well but all forms of black and white communism /marxism-leninism always seemed to have lead to totalitarian states.. like correct me if wrong, its fair and completely normal to say that whatever the west amd especially countries like USA an UK are bullshit and need to dismantled atleast large parts of it.. but i dont understand why they jump instantly to models of china and Russia.. like i said maybe i dont understand it well enough..
The vast majority of Marxist-Leninists in the west only gradually come to understand and accept existing socialism, like the former USSR and current PRC. It's usually a years, even decades-long process of studying Marxism-Leninism, existing socialism, and peeling back layers and layers of anti-communism instilled from birth.
AES countries are not "totalitarian," at least not evenly. They have all been dramatically liberating for the working classes, while being horrfying for capitalists, landlords, fascists, slavers, etc from their prior systems. In the west, we get an exaggerated boogeyman version of these countries beamed into our heads, from the ruling class perspectives, to prevent us from seeing how we could benefit by learning from them.
Marxism-Leninism is by no means black and white. Nuance is build into Marxism, its key philosophical outlook is dialectical materialism.
Thanks for ur perspective, i think they r fair points, but you are giving up a lot of personal liberty and freedom of expression if you are OK with systems of something like PRC, but i suppose that can be classified as a choice However I think that the censorship that goes around such countries also makes it harder for us to know anything other than for example China might want to show us, we dont really have much idea of how internal dynamics work there and if u choose to believe personal testimonies its not pretty…
I'm not a capitalist, the amount of freedom I'd have if I lived in the PRC would increase dramatically. Despite popular misconception, we do have a good idea of what goes on in China. They have english-speaking news like CGTN, their processes are observed and reported on, and if you believe personal testemonies it's actually fantastic:
The problem is that western media obfuscates or slanders a lot of this reporting. It's a much more insidious form of censorship, it pretends it doesn't exist. China controls and censors the speech of capitalists and wreckers, yes, and this is approved by the vast majority.
Fun graph.
Is it okay to say otherwise? No repercussions to saying anything bad about the government? Or even perceptions that there may be repercussions?
I say this wittingly at risk of suffering the same heavy downvotes as the responder who merely concluded "the china one raises some questions…". Someone (or more ideally everybody) needs to stay curious and question things...
Depends mostly on who you are. Capitalists and celebrities are more restricted and censored, but for the working classes that doesn't apply nearly as much. People in China do genuinely support their government, and this is proven by consistent polling by western orgs showing over 90% support.
I dont think even you would agree that china is democratic tho.. not to say the west are perfect democracies, and the data u provided reflects people thoughts.. the china one raises some questions..
China is democratic, though. Why do you say they aren't? They elect officials, have large feedback polls and national suggestions for Five Year Plans, and there are local and regional governments with their own autonomy. Popular support in China is well-documented.
Peoples satisfaction isnt a metric of democracy, are a lot of people happy with chinas government? Maybe, minorities certainly arent tho But the reason its undemocratic is that there isnt really anything to challenge the CCP or its policies, and dissent is punished and censored, people have historically been happy under monarchs, but doesnt make them democratic..
This is just baby's first Chinabad shit with zero sources and completely ignoring the real data that countermands it.
The Case for a Third Reconstruction
The scale and depth of the attack on our institutions means that there is no simple way for a pro-democracy coalition to flip the lights back on after Trump. We need transformative thinking.
Trump is normal for America and how America acts around the world, you guys are just upset it is happening at home now and not Iraq.
I don't really get how that contradicts needing a 3rd reconstruction that dismantles the government agencies that carry out that kind of shit and didn't even exist until WWII rather than dismantling a democracy?
you guys are just upset it is happening at home now and not Iraq.
Can't argue with you there, but that's also part of what makes me question who's best interest would be dismantling U.S. democracy instead of dismantling specific agencies within the government, with no plan for where we go next?
Because it kinda seems like those agencies would carry on doing whatever they want even after a union fully dissolves. They would just have fewer obstacles in their way.
When you think about how an American agency, for example, the CIA operates this playbook in other countries, what is their intended goal?
Their goal is to destabilize a country in order to remove any obstacles to taking full control. They usually achieve destabilization by undermining public trust in a system and the leaders of that system, so that the public will either dismantle the government for them or be less resistant once it is dismantled (see the Soviet Union in the late 80s). Once that happens, they already hold all the resources and power, and install somebody they already have lined up.
Considering that there seems to currently be a global campaign to spread disinformation and install far right leaders across the globe, it makes me question if this is happening everywhere bc global destabilization is the goal.
Currently, just about anywhere in the world, who holds the majority of the resources? The people or a small group of oligarchs? When destabilization happens and a local government collapses who has the upper hand when it comes to filling the power vacuum?
I don’t really get how that contradicts needing a 3rd reconstruction that dismantles the government agencies that carry out that kind of shit and didn’t even exist until WWII rather than dismantling a democracy?
- You don't have a democracy, you live in a dictatorship of capital
- You never completed the second reconstruction, what makes you think you can handle a third
What makes you think oligarchs haven't been continuing to undermine and dismantle the second reconstruction this entire time, and aren't using their established global institutions (like banks, corporations, and conservative think tanks) to do exactly what they've been projecting and accusing progressives of doing?
Do you honestly think there isn't a good chance a global cabal of far right conservatives might be ready to use their collective wealth and resources they hoard and pass down for generations to take full global control?
Or Steve Kangas on the Origins of the overclass and the crimes of the CIA
In socialist countries, the working classes are in control. We can learn from them.
No no no. In socialist countries, the Big Government is in control. There's no freedom. Everyone lives in fear. You don't even own your own toothbrush.
Anyone who supports socialism is a Tankie who just wants to kill rich white people for fun and doesn't understand how awful their lives will be afterwards.
I genuinely can't tell whether this is satire or not.