Objection

joined 2 years ago
[–] Objection@lemmy.ml 21 points 1 day ago (1 children)

"Their own interests" whose interests, exactly? Who benefitted, and who paid the costs, for the wars in the Middle East? The only people who benefitted seem to be oil companies and war profiteers, while ordinary people (including my own family) paid for it in both money and blood.

The interests of your own country's bourgeoisie might align sometimes with those of the American bourgeoisie, but neither align with your people or the American people.

[–] Objection@lemmy.ml 3 points 4 days ago

The fediverse's favorite is proof by shaming: Asking for proof means you're a bad person who doesn't deserve proof.

[–] Objection@lemmy.ml 15 points 6 days ago (5 children)

If WWIII breaks out we're all gonna fucking die. Will there be any countries left after 24 hours?

[–] Objection@lemmy.ml 2 points 6 days ago

So many of these people will play this little game where they pretend to be reluctant, like they care just as much as we do, but as much as it tears them up inside, they'll make the "rational" choice for the "lesser genocide."

Then, as soon as the leftists were out of the room, they dropped the facade and started talking about how great and wonderful Harris is and how they couldn't think of a single reason to dislike her. This wasn't the only post like that that got 1000+ upvotes, despite Lemmy being full of "reluctant" Harris voters.

A part of me wishes they'd just tell us straight up that they don't give a shit.

 

I'm aware that in many cases the answer is simply, "they don't," as many people don't seem to have the historical or theoretical curiosity to investigate it. However, I genuinely want to encourage more cerebral discussion around here, so I'll give a brief rundown.

The Second International was a big federation of socialists/social democrats with lots of different perspectives, the largest being Germany's SDP (which still exists today). The aim was to foster international cooperation and solidarity, and to promote the interests of the common people, including preventing the outbreak of a major European war. The Basel Manifesto, passed by a unanimous vote at the International Socialist Congress in 1912, stated:

If a war threatens to break out, it is the duty of the working classes and their parliamentary representatives in the countries involved supported by the coordinating activity of the International Socialist Bureau to exert every effort in order to prevent the outbreak of war by the means they consider most effective, which naturally vary according to the sharpening of the class struggle and the sharpening of the general political situation.

In case war should break out anyway it is their duty to intervene in favor of its speedy termination and with all their powers to utilize the economic and political crisis created by the war to arouse the people and thereby to hasten the downfall of capitalist class rule.

The Second International fell apart when the SDP voted in favor of issuing war credits, indicating support for German entry into WWI, with other social democratic parties following suit. This made any hope of international cooperation impossible. Although everyone said that they opposed the war in principle, they all found reasons to rally around their respective flags and point fingers at each other for who's side was more responsible.

Lenin was an exception to this trend and not only strongly opposed Russian participation in the war, but even went so far as to explictly call for Russia's defeat. The Leninist perspective is that the social democratic parties betrayed the international socialist movement and failed to oppose the war because had become filled with opportunists, people who were willing to go against the interests of the people out of fear of political persecution (or, in the interest of advancing their own careers) and that, from this, we can see that attempts to work within the system to achieve reform are vulnerable such mechanisms of subversion.

The breakdown of the Second International was not just a disagreement between social democrats and Leninists, but also between social democrats of different countries. When their respective countries turned against each other, and the range of acceptable opinions narrowed to the point that opposing the war would be seen as treasonous, they all found reasons to start fighting each other, in a largely pointless war on an unprecedented scale.

Is it really possible to build any sort of international coalition if a party limits itself to the range of opinions that are permissible within a capitalist system? And are modern social democrats even interested in that sort of internationalism anymore?

[–] Objection@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Related, in Star Wars lore, Tarkin got promoted (in the late Republic) after landing a ship on top of a crowd of protesters where were blocking the spaceport on Ghorman.

[–] Objection@lemmy.ml 36 points 1 week ago

The thing is that the rebels were (mostly) white, and removing the racial lens allowed Americans to see that a struggle like that of colonized people against their oppressors was obviously correct. But it also means they can't connect the rebels to real world conflicts, because the oppressed people are generally not white, and so it's understood through a racial lens.

[–] Objection@lemmy.ml 20 points 1 week ago (3 children)

Libs think Trump vs. Harris was like Leia vs Darth Vader when in reality it was more like Darth Vader vs Palpatine.

[–] Objection@lemmy.ml 12 points 1 week ago

"This is just natural free market competition. The real problem is big government trying to impose restrictions on Hawk Inc."

[–] Objection@lemmy.ml 9 points 1 week ago

The military industrial complex.

 

The government targeted disabled people from some of the poorest communities in the country, who McNamara referred to as, "the subterranean poor."

Many of those drafted were illiterate, they had to be taught to tie their shoes, and they didn't know things like who the president was, even as they were being sent to kill and die on his orders for an imperialist war, for reasons they could not understand.

A book called McNamera's Folly records some stories of those recruited in the program. One thought a nickel was worth more than a dime, because it was bigger. One of them failed to attend training and was sentenced to four years of labor in prison, and the sergeant asked if anyone "wanted to join them in the stockade." Another conscript didn't know what the word "stockade" meant and thought it meant going home, so he said yes - he received the same sentence.

If you can believe it, this was actually sold to the public as a "progressive" program, as part of Johnson's "War on Poverty." The claim was that this would be a way to help the conscripts learn useful skills. in reality, a study by the DoD itself found:

Comparisons between Project 100,000 participants and their non-veteran peers showed that, in terms of employment status, educational achievement, and income, non-veterans appeared better off. Veterans were more likely to be unemployed and to have a significantly lower level of education. Income differences ranged from $5,000 [to] $7,000 in favor of non-veterans. Veterans were more likely to have been divorced.

Obviously.

 

We all know the meme, but most of the time it's referenced about someone shitty saying something you already agree with. What I wanna hear about is a time when someone who you broadly disagree with actually gave you some kind of new insight about something - even if you didn't end up coming around to their point of view. Maybe they gave you a piece of a puzzle that you were missing, but then you built on that in a completely different way.

Doesn't have to actually be "the worst person you know," interpret it however you like.

[–] Objection@lemmy.ml 13 points 1 week ago

Finally, a grindset I can get behind.

[–] Objection@lemmy.ml 11 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Are we sure the Lenin one's not real? Lenin's plan for defeating the bourgeoisie was, famously, to work within the system to increase taxes through incremental reforms.

[–] Objection@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 week ago (1 children)

"Look, I don't like this any more than you do, but as long as billionaire perverts exist, there's going to be demand for secret pedophile islands, and somebody's gonna have to traffic kids to them. I'm just trying to get that bag.

I feel like you're being very childish about this."

 
 
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