Lemminary

But, clearly I wasn’t there and I didn’t know that you were criticising a drawing!

Precisely, so let's not assume things and speak in ways that try to pin it on me. "You should've apologized and backed down" is rewarding their shitty behavior.

I get your point about avoiding generalizations, but I wouldn't call it a category. This is a pattern of behavior from people who think they're standing up for someone or something, but end up being straight-up toxic by taking social justice to extremes. I've even seen it in person, where some asshole crashed our LGBT+ community group because they started accusing another guy of saying something racist when it wasn't the case. It was needless drama all around because someone decided to be the superhero and save imaginary people.

I think you're assuming a lot about what the interaction actually was about, how it happened, and why. And you're assuming that I don't know what being part of a marginalized group that gets constant shit thrown at feels like.

An apology is not in order when the person is making a big deal out of nothing, making shit up, and reframing what's being said to defend imaginary people or abstract ideas. Then add to that malice when things don't go their way. If I had said something about a particular person or something egregious, I would understand, but I said it about a drawing.

I have difficulty backing down in lots of scenarios but accidentally upsetting someone I didn’t mean to isn’t one of them.

You say that because you haven't met the whiteknights in the community who get upset on behalf of others or lose their shit when others don't follow their mental models of gender expression/identity. You know how white people will sometimes cry culture appropriation, and the natives are like, "uh, we're actually ok with that"? Yeah, they exist in the gay world too, and some are vicious and vindictive to the point of being abusive themselves. To me, it sounds like you're defending a Karen.

Well, yeah, I know how to behave. I have a long history of participating in the trans community. I'm not foreign to any of these things.

But none of that matters when the other person misinterprets what you're saying or what you mean, attributes malice to your words, and refuses to change their perspective when you try to explain, while demanding an apology for what is essentially an innocuous comment as if you killed their cat.

The fact of the matter is that, much like the atheist community that I've come to abhor after being a part of it for over a decade, the trans community also has its fair share of crazies. And those aren't even my words, but the words of a trans friend with whom I used to go to these trans events. He also got fed up with their bullshit and would rant at me about them while sharing screenshots. And even now I try to be more patient than him, but sometimes I think to myself, "holy shit, he was right."

Oh, I can answer that. I'm not here to revive the topics, as these things usually go with people trying to nitpick, but hopefully it'll appease someone's curiosity.

One time, I made a comment on blahaj zone about gay guys wearing too much makeup and wearing feminine clothes that seemed to be crossing the line into cross-dressing. It had literally happened to me a week prior when I went out with my non-binary friends to the gay bar I frequent, so it was fresh in my mind. They wore skirts, lip gloss, and handbags. It's literally nothing out of the ordinary for them, and I actually appreciate it. The comment was made in jest because, well, they are gender non-conforming and that falls under the trans umbrella after all. Well, I guess someone thought I was being a bigot who was assuming things about gender and made a fuss by misinterpreting what I said. They started demanding that I apologize for my comment as if it were a big deal, and people started replying with their version of events. I refused and tried to explain that it wasn't the case, but they still banned me after someone reported me. I complained that they were being outrageous and had some very unkind words for the admin, who took matters too far and who I thought was being unfair.

Another time, I criticized communism on lemmy.ml. Unfortunately, I didn't know how cozied up they were with hexbear, who crusaded out of nowhere and started dunking on me, even though I didn't think I had said something bad. I thought it was light criticism, and I even explained that I'm not even against it, but they had no tolerance for it whatsoever. The next day, I was under 40+ comments calling me all kinds of shit. A mod (admin?) came across it and banned my account on sight. They even included some bullshit in the modlogs to hide the real motive. This happened about 2.5 years ago, so I don't remember all the details, sorry.

And the most recent one was when I was pleading for people to avoid posting blown-up, zoomed-in pictures of common phobias like spiders without a spoiler or NSFW tag, out of consideration for people who have a lifelong struggle with these things that pop up in /all, explaining that many underestimate how much of an effect it can have. It's hard to explain what happens in the moment, but let's just say that the UIs become less than helpful in a panic when your entire screen is covered with your phobia. It causes more than a jump scare from prolonged exposure, and it's followed by nervousness and agitation that lasts for a good while, which can ruin a good morning. I was called all kinds of shit, berated, blamed, and humiliated. I ended up reporting someone who was breaking the site-wide and sub rules. And who gets banned? Me, with some bullshit in the modlogs about how I'm a "known troll." The mod did end up unbanning and apologizing for jumping the gun, but only after I called them out on it in a different thread.

All of these cases have things in common: the rules were selectively enforced, people either misattributed or overloaded what the other was saying, the comments were scrubbed, and the wrong person was targeted.

Sorry, I meant to say that speech isn't as free as people are saying in this thread. We have people essentially screaming "punch a nazi" as if it's a controversial opinion here, when there are other milder opinions that would create some serious outrage and get you banned on a whim.

I think it's universally understood that there are consequences to what you say, and even how you say it, and when. I think that's part of my point. I'm not here to argue for absolute free speech. I don't believe in that.

I'm merely pointing out that the Fediverse as a whole is a lot more policed than people say. It doesn't take much to create animosity.

If an instance has values so diametrically opposed to yours that they end up banning you, then good riddance, no? Edit: E.g. getting thrown out of a Nazi bar is no huge loss.

I don't think that's how it works. You can very much agree with a community the overwhelming majority of the time while getting along fine, and still create some friction by touching specific topics. At least, that's been my experience in general everywhere, both online and IRL.

vague anecdotal observations

Sounds like you're just trying to wave me off.

What were the exact things you said on which communities, that got you “dogpiled”?

Don't worry about it. Talking to you seems kind of pointless, too, seeing as you're not even a mod or an admin.

And please just be honest, you are not some kind of politian trying to win a debate by any means possible, I see this more as a conversation.

I'm sorry, what? Aren't we doing exactly that? How am I being a politician? I think you have the wrong idea about me and are trying to steer the conversation back on the track that it's already on for some reason. lol

Honestly, I'd rather not deal with these annoying mischaracterizations. I've said my peace, I think I'm done.

Disagreeing is one thing, and it's what we're doing, right? But there's a big difference when you're being dogpiled, vilified, harassed, insulted, and strawmanned all because people dislike what you said, even if it wasn't offensive or wrong. Then you get your comments removed and your account banned when you merely defend your point of view.

And also, nobody owes you to platform your beliefs uncritically

But that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying quite the opposite, when even the point you're making is calling something into question. These mods aren't even paying for the hosting service.

Saying that someone banning someone from their community is impeading on your free speech is just like complaining that someone didn’t invite you to their party because you insulted them.

Oh, come on, these are open forums where everyone is encouraged to participate at first, and you don't even have to be insulting to get on the wrong side of some people. I have been banned while being perfectly polite and following the rules.

No, but I am. Your lunch break ended five minutes ago. Get back to memeing. Chop chop!

Why not do it meow?

I've been posting more often lately. I'm doing my part, soldier!

You’re free to say what you want

But that's my point, you're not free to say whatever you want. Even holding a different opinion can draw the wrong attention in the worst ways. The people who dogpile, vilify, and twist your words see no consequences, and only you end up paying by being excluded from the bigger communities for sticking to your words. You will get banned, and your comments will be scrubbed from the modlog.

What you're saying only works if you're ok with dealing in smaller communities with less traffic, which is a major complaint seeing as how Lemmy is already a small social media site, or you're willing to shell out the money to spin up your own instance, which isn't viable for the people who would love to do that if only money wasn't a limitation.

What I'm saying is that regardless of how one cuts it, speech isn't free here. It's heavily punished and often enforced.

It's a fair question to ask, given the situation with new accounts.

Does this not look suspicious to you?