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What kind of idiotic analogy is this? I can't even wrap my head around it.
No, it's really not just "semantics". Words have specific meaning.
I completely believe that the majority of Ukrainians want a negotiated end to the war. War sucks and everybody who has had to live trough one will tell you so. But if the "negotiation" is Russia saying "Give us all the territory we have occupied/seized so far, plus some additional territory that we have not yet occupied, and we will withdraw our troops." that's not a negotiation. That's conditional surrender. I really doubt that the people are clamoring to surrender their land and homes to Russian occupiers.
I suspect that no matter what I think the Ukrainian people should do, if they decide that they are ready to give up the fight, then that's none of my business. I'm not in the trenches with a rifle, after all.
But if they Ukrainian people want to continue to fight, and negotiate for a favorable peace agreement, I'm all for supporting them so that they can win and make all the bloodshed so far worth it.
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess that Zelenskyy has a better grasp of the pulse of his own citizens than any of us do.
Ml. You could've stopped when you saw their name.
Thats some precise and deliberate language you're using. Yet you've still avoided answering the simple question.
"Hell yeah! Slava Ukraini! To the last man!
"Meh, not my business"
It's pretty clear that when this war most likely ends via negotiation and a land concession, all the gung ho support we see in threads like this one is going to evaporate.
lmao, bro, I can't force them to fight. I'm just a guy on the other end of the computer. I think you don't understand what the word "support" means.
I support Ukraine's right to independence and freedom.
I support the cessation of hostilities in the region.
I do not support surrender to Russia. Why would I? Choosing to fight and choosing not to fight are two diametrically opposed concepts. Therefore, I do not support a resolution in which Ukraine gives up land to Russia, period.
Don't hold your breath on this one, Chief.
Wow, what a stunning prediction. Next are you going to predict that the sun will come back up again after it goes down?
Regardless of how the war ends, the support generally ends with it. That's how thing things tend to work. it's pretty hard to care about a think when the thing is no longer happening. If Ukraine achieved victory through martial victory alone and ended the war purely on their terms, my support would also evaporate because the war would be over.
Ukrainian independence and freedom is secured through negotiations. When Ukraine negotiates an end to the war and cedes territory, they still have independence and freedom. You are making up goal posts by saying that ceding land is an end to independence and freedom. It's not. The end of independence and freedom would be Russia occupying Kiev. That is not in the cards. Russia will never occupy Kiev, they don't have the resources for it. Instead, in the absence of a negotiated end to the conflict, Russia will bombard Kiev and the rest of Western Ukraine to destroy all infrastructure, all manufacturing, and all energy production. So Ukraine will be independent but destroyed entirely. The negotiation is to prevent such bombardment at the cost of the Russian speaking territories on the border with Russia and a legal guarantee that Ukraine will not allow foreign military bases that are hostile to Russia to establish themselves in Ukraine.
Well thank you for finally giving up on the evasiveness. Ukrainian agency means nothing to you.
To stand with Ukraine means to affirm the average Ukrainian's agency. To affirm their agency to dictate the terms of the end of the war - even if it means they wish to surrender. You will not affirm Ukrainians if they decide to surrender, so you dont stand with Ukraine. You stand with Zelensky, at best. You stand with Ukraine *so long as they promise to sacrifice the last able-bodied soldier, at worst.
So let's just all be clear and understand that you dont stand with Ukraine. You tentatively condone them, so long as...
Please move to Russia... I'll buy the plane ticket. Bring some sunflower seeds when you leave, you'll need them
I have family in Ukraine... I %100 give a fuck what's happening over there....you should join him.