evergreen

That is awesome about the soap ice course. This helps explain why Finland has many of the best rally drivers haha. It is taken seriously there.

I feel that in the U.S. they don't really want to make it too difficult to get a driver's license because it would reduce the travel abilities of too many of the slave citizens to get to their jobs supporting the system. Regardless of why, we definitely see some ridiculous driving shit here.

A functional society requires compromises in order to protect its vulnerable members. Sure, some people may be able to handle the 70%+ alcohol. Or the Fentanyl. But there will always be those who can't. Maybe pre-disposed to addiction, have a physical condition or whatever the reason. That is why the regulations against the ridiculously potent shit exist. It is not to take away your responsible enjoyment. It is to protect those who cannot enjoy responsibly. A sacrifice that basically the stronger members of society (stronger in that specific aspect) are making to benefit the weaker members.

Agree 100%. In a controlled setting it is a highly effective drug and a legitimate advancement for healthcare.

"Yes you can technically kill yourself with both and definitely have a problem with the substance and ruin your life, but the stronger one seems to do that quite a bit more."

100% agree. This is a huge part of the issue that I feel many people just don't get. 3mg of this stuff is enough to kill an average sized adult male. That would easily fit under your fingernail with room to spare. 50 - 100 times more potent than morphine. Pretty crazy.

Interesting about buprenorphin in Finland, I had never heard of it. Is it a recent thing there?

I don't know about other cities, but here in San Francisco it is mostly treated as a public health issue. Users are not arrested or penalized. There are many treatment centers, shelters, clean injection sites etc. The help and support is definitely available but the public nuisance definitely does not just drop right off.

The problem that I see here is that there are people who are just too far gone to help due to the destruction Fentanyl causes. They will likely require fulltime care or stwardship for the rest of their lives. Many outright just refuse any help. Many go right back to using again after treatment because it's all they know. I've spoken with a few that straight up told me they don't care if they die doing this. While sad, it is their right to slowly kill themselves if they want I guess, but meanwhile they're sprawled out on the sidewalk covered in their own diarrhea with everyone one else having to walk in the bike lane to avoid them. Society as a whole is losing here. Since 2023 about 1.5 people are known to die from Fentanyl per day in this city.

San Francisco deals with more than its fair share because people come here from across the country due to the mild climate and many services available, so maybe all of our facilities are just overloaded. Perhaps they are also I'll equipped to deal with something like this because the physical and mental destruction that Fentanyl causes is just so severe. It's not like the common drugs of the past.

I had 3 coworkers who were chased and threatened on different occasions, luckily nobody was harmed. One barely made it into the building before the guy chasing him could reach him. He quit like a month later, sucks. It is a sanitary and public safety hazard for sure. Everyone on all sides here just loses. Except for the dealers and manufacturers I guess?

Yeah that's another part of it. It seems like their higher mind is basically gone and the body is just on some sort of crippled autopilot. Basically zombies. I've called the city's crisis response team numerous times for the ones that start going into traffic. They're pretty effective at least for helping the ones that are in immediate physical danger.

Do you think it should still be legal if it were proven that repeated use causes irreparable brain or body damage? I know one can make the same argument against other legal drugs, sure. But the Fentanyl family of opiates are just so powerful and so easily severely damaging. I see people that have abused long term and its pretty obvious they will never be functional again even if they get clean. At what point does individual freedom to damage one's body or mind become too destructive to society as a whole? What would happen if everybody did it? What happens when the addicted wants more than their legally allowed dosage? Now we're back to square 1 with illegal markets. It's a super complex and tough issue for sure and I'm not saying I have any answers, but it really makes me question if there is a safe way for society to sustainably recreationally use Fentanyl. It's just such a slippery slope.

It is most likely Fentanyl, or some other form of opiate. Prolonged abuse causes them to lose control of their muscles around their core and this is the result.

I used to work near a hot spot for homelessness and drug use in San Francisco and witnessed it everyday. The things these people go through with that addiction are downright horrendous and the "Fentanyl Fold" or "Fent Bent" is actually one of the lesser symptoms. The skin infections, kidney problems, and digestive issues can become pretty severe. I've seen quite a few screaming in agony because their kidneys are messed up and they can't urinate. People with infected swollen hands or feet. You can literally smell them rotting. Too much to list here honestly. It is a terrible drug that does permanent damage to people at best, and is just a slow agonizing death at worst.