An international (English speaking) socialist Lemmy community free of the "ML" influence of instances like lemmy.ml and lemmygrad. This is a place for undogmatic shitposting and memes from a progressive, anti-capitalist and truly anti-imperialist perspective, regardless of specific ideology.
Serious posts, news, discussion and agitprop/stuff that's better fit for a poster than a meme go in c/Socialism.
If you are new to socialism, you can ask questions and find resources over on c/Socialism101.
Please don't forget to help keep this community clean by reporting rule violations, updooting good contributions and downdooting those of low quality!
0. Only post socialist memes
That refers to funny image macros and means that generally videos and screenshots are not allowed. Exceptions include explicitly humorous and short videos, as well as (social media) screenshots depicting a funny situation, joke, or joke picture relating to socialist movements, theory, societal issues, or political opponents. Examples would be the classic case of humorous Tumblr or Twitter posts/threads. (and no, agitprop text does not count as a meme. Please post agitprop here)
0.5 [Provisional Rule] Use alt text or image descriptions to allow greater accessibility
(Please take a look at our wiki page for the guidelines on how to actually write alternative text!)
We require alternative text (from now referred to as "alt text") to be added to all posts/comments containing media, such as images, animated GIFs, videos, audio files, and custom emojis.
EDIT: For files you share in the comments, a simple summary should be enough if theyβre too complex.
We are committed to social equity and to reducing barriers of entry, including (digital) communication and culture. It takes each of us only a few moments to make a whole world of content (more) accessible to a bunch of folks.
When alt text is absent, a reminder will be issued. If you don't add the missing alt text within 48 hours, the post will be removed. No hard feelings.
0.5.1 Style tip about abbreviations and short forms
When writing stuff like "lol" and "iirc", it's a good idea to try and replace those with their all caps counterpart
Why? Because otherwise (AFAIK), screen readers will try to read them out as actually words instead of spelling them
1. Socialist Unity in the form of mutual respect and good faith interactions is enforced here
Try to keep an open mind, other schools of thought may offer points of view and analyses you haven't considered yet. Also: This is not a place for the Idealism vs. Materialism or rather Anarchism vs. Marxism debate(s), for that please visit c/AnarchismVsMarxism.
2. Anti-Imperialism means recognizing capitalist states like Russia and China as such
That means condemning (their) imperialism, even if it is of the "anti-USA" flavor.
3. No liberalism, (right-wing) revisionism or reactionaries.
That includes so called: Social Democracy, Democratic Socialism, Dengism, Market Socialism, Patriotic Socialism, National Bolshevism, Anarcho-Capitalism etc. . Anti-Socialist people and content have no place here, as well as the variety of "Marxist"-"Leninists" seen on lemmygrad and more specifically GenZedong (actual ML's are welcome as long as they agree to the rules and don't just copy paste/larp about stuff from a hundred years ago).
4. No Bigotry.
The only dangerous minority is the rich.
5. Don't demonize previous and current socialist experiments or (leading) individuals.
We must constructively learn from their mistakes, while acknowledging their achievements and recognizing when they have strayed away from socialist principles.
(if you are reading the rules to apply for modding this community, mention "Mantic Minotaur" when answering question 2)
6. Don't irrationally idolize/glorify previous and current socialist experiments or (leading) individuals.
Notable achievements in all spheres of society were made by various socialist/people's/democratic republics around the world. Mistakes, however, were made as well: bureaucratic castes of parasitic elites - as well as reactionary cults of personality - were established, many things were mismanaged and prejudice and bigotry sometimes replaced internationalism and progressiveness.
Not a particular fan of the USSR but 100% I wish it was the usa that disbanded in 1991. Miserable place that exports war and suffering, and it used to blugeon the proles by saying "be grateful for what you have, it's worse in the USA".
Garbage place, I visited once and it was literally stomach turning how much suffering was surrounded by so much wealth. The only places I've seen more miserable and places the USA has been colonising or bombing.
Also just because it sort of pisses me off when people have strong opinions on shit they know nothing about here is a CIA report on the gulags from 1957 https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP80T00246A032000400001-1.pdf
I think it makes for interesting reading, as even this rather adversarial document seems to indicate that the propagandised view of them is exaggerated. They do point out some nutty things, some of which were improved.
I think the idea that the USSR was some uniquely evil place is just patently false, it seems to be pretty ordinary in the evil produced, ahead of its time in some regards (e.g. women's rights, certain ethnicities inclusions, anti homeless architecture etc), and dissapointingly typical in other regards like treatment of lgbt people, mental illness, exclusion of certain ethnicities, approach to criminal rehabilitation and so on.
But seriously fuck Stalin as well.
and fuck any homophobe that thinks he was a good leader.
and fuck any homophobe that thinks he was a good leader.
I'd ask who the fuck thinks stalin was a good leader, but tankies exist.
Two things can be bad.
nah, only US bad. soviet always good, gulag just give jobs to queer people, improve society. dogbert very smart.
This is lemmy, the only non-binaries allowed are the genders.
To paraphrase Tacitus, because I'm feeling fancy:
They plunder, they slaughter, and they steal: this they falsely name freedom, and where they make a wasteland, they call it peace.
It's interesting how even the Romans thought they were the good guys, while literally enslaving millions and condemning millions more to starvation.
Humans haven't changed. Great powers haven't changed. Cunts are still running the world.
America isn't particularly special. It's just more of the same.
Worth including the percentage of the entire world population, as well. People might mistakenly assume that, because the US is a big world leader with lots of people, maybe 25% of all people live in the USA, or maybe it's like 21% and we are just slightly overrepresented in prison population. aybr it's 17%, or even 12% would make that number seem less shocking.
But it's 4.2%. We have six times more ~~slaves~~prisoners with jobs per person than the rest of the world.
No theyβre slaves
The 13th amendment specifically says slavery is only abolished except as punishment for a crime
Theyβre legally just slaves. Getting a small and conditional pay doesnβt make them not slaves.
Hwy that's not true! Not all of them are slaves!
What about the torture prisons? Do they just not count? Rude.
The fuck you think a plantation was?
Kind of a mix of the two.
Pretty much exactly that plus a market. Prisoners held for torture are still slaves. They turn a profit for the prison as long as they're not dead. They're just funded by your tax dollars instead of private wealth.
Not if you're not extracting labor from them! I have no reason to believe black sites are directly profitable!
Unless they're run by a state entity it's extremely unlikely they'll operate at a loss.
If you're talking about the "Whoopsy doodle! #redacted :3" portion of the US military budget then yes it's possible only the tortured prisoner title applies.
I was reading an article a few months ago that one of the largest plantations is still around but is now a prison.
Edit: I remembered the name Angola
He just killed them instead.
don't act like the US's shitty behavior isnt because they wear their crosses and white power pins and have self named and appointed themselves as the world moral police. don't do drugs or trade in non US dollars kids otherwise they will make you find jesus.
Freedom
Ya got any sources on those figures?
I'm seeing that the Gulags had about 18 million people passed thru them from the 1920s to the mid 1950s, with about 1.5-1.7m died in detention. Population of Sov.Union 1920 - 136.8m, and 1950 178.5m. About 10% died in the gulags per these figures. https://www.britannica.com/place/Gulag
Currently approx. 11.5m are imprisoned world wide. And the USA has about 1,808,100 incarcerated. Thus approximately 15.7% of all incarcerated are in the USA.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/incarceration-rates-by-country
You're comparing a span of ~30 years to a point-in-time number?
Yeah that's just bad math
Cool, you have access to the same numbers. How would you make a comparison that makes sense of this oft repeated 'apples to organges' meme?
Would you be more comfortable if we compared 1920-1950 for gulags, and US prisons? Or how about just a point in time for the USA and world prisons. OH wait, I already provided you with that with the second reference. What would make y'all happy?
Youβre asking someone to prove your shitty point for you? Bold.
No, not at all. I'm trying to make sense of your shitty "gotcha" point, made with an oft repeated meme with no associated references. But hey, you were 'this close'. Keep trying.
Damn, youβre not even good at being condescending π€£
lol, no better than you at elaborating, or explaining. Are you by any chance related to Mary Poppins?
Lol get fucked kulak
Thus approximately 15.7% of all incarcerated are in the USA.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_States
It seems it peaked at around 25% in 2009, but has been declining since.
About 10% died in the gulags per these figures
How many died outside gulags in this timespan, though? The Soviet Union lost 25 million people altogether during WW2, many millions of those from hunger and disease due to horrifying conditions all over the country after the 1941 Nazi invasion. 25 million over 150mn is around 17%. Gulags themselves weren't particularly deadly, it's the whole Nazi invasion that triggered mass death
The USSR was a fucking shit hole
Except for being too cold and the novels being too long, the united States has literally every problem it did at its worst. Many of them to a greater degree. Plus a few more it never did.
Some people liked it, some people didn't. There were winners and losers. Alot of people who lived thru it and really didn't like it at the time miss aspects of it (like Americans looking at our past with rose colored glasses) or think it was better than what Russia has become under Putin
Yeah I can find a million boomers who think they had a better life growing up too. They still lived in a shitty racist homophobic discriminatory society.
Your mom (that image)!
Soviets: βI had a perfect life!β
Americans: βyour mom!β
Read the second half, dear.
I still donβt get it. Maybe Iβm dumb.
Usa: Ill do it again!
