this post was submitted on 18 Dec 2025
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[–] sik0fewl@lemmy.ca 19 points 11 hours ago (11 children)

Any nation that wants to keep their sovereignty needs nukes. Agreements like the Budapest Memorandum were a mistake for some of the countries involved (Ukraine).

[–] vega208@sh.itjust.works 9 points 5 hours ago (7 children)

Lol, I wonder when Ukrainians will connect the dots that they're in this position solely because they put their faith into western powers that didn't deliver on their side of the bargain.

[–] moderatecentrist@feddit.uk -1 points 4 hours ago (6 children)

When did western powers promise that they would stop Putin invading Ukraine?

Ukraine is in their current position because Putin decided to invade Ukraine

[–] Naloxone@lemmy.world 7 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

Ukraine is the only nation to ever give up their nuclear weapons (after the dissolution of the USSR). At the time, they were assured by the world that their security would be provided for if there was ever a need.

[–] moderatecentrist@feddit.uk 1 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

I just looked at the text of the Budapest Memorandum. The US, the UK, and Russia all agreed in that memorandum to "refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine".

Russia is the country who broke that commitment, when they invaded Ukraine in 2014. I wouldn't say that the US or the UK broke that commitment, because they haven't used force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine.

There's another commitment in there saying that the US, the UK, and Russia will "seek immediate United Nations Security Council action to provide assistance to Ukraine... if Ukraine should become a victim of an act of aggression". It seems there were UNSC meetings - like this one - shortly after Russia sent troops into Crimea. If you think the US and UK didn't do enough in this regard then fair enough, but I don't their actions were as bad as Russia invading Ukraine.

[–] 3abas@lemmy.world 2 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

Semantics.

The point is Ukraine wouldn't be in this position if they didn't give up their Nukes, and they gave up their Nukes because they believed more would be done.

[–] moderatecentrist@feddit.uk 1 points 1 hour ago

I'm talking about what was actually agreed to. To me it seems that Russia quite clearly abandoned its commitments within the Budapest Memorandum. I don't think you can say that the US and the UK did, unless you're saying that those two countries didn't do enough within the UN Security Council to back Ukraine.

Surely the primary country to blame for this situation is Russia. Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014. Western countries didn't invade Ukraine.

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