this post was submitted on 18 Dec 2025
104 points (99.1% liked)

World News

51337 readers
2091 users here now

A community for discussing events around the World

Rules:

Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.


Lemmy World Partners

News !news@lemmy.world

Politics !politics@lemmy.world

World Politics !globalpolitics@lemmy.world


Recommendations

For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] sik0fewl@lemmy.ca 17 points 10 hours ago (11 children)

Any nation that wants to keep their sovereignty needs nukes. Agreements like the Budapest Memorandum were a mistake for some of the countries involved (Ukraine).

[–] vega208@sh.itjust.works 9 points 4 hours ago (7 children)

Lol, I wonder when Ukrainians will connect the dots that they're in this position solely because they put their faith into western powers that didn't deliver on their side of the bargain.

[–] moderatecentrist@feddit.uk -1 points 3 hours ago (2 children)

When did western powers promise that they would stop Putin invading Ukraine?

Ukraine is in their current position because Putin decided to invade Ukraine

[–] Naloxone@lemmy.world 7 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

Ukraine is the only nation to ever give up their nuclear weapons (after the dissolution of the USSR). At the time, they were assured by the world that their security would be provided for if there was ever a need.

[–] moderatecentrist@feddit.uk 1 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

I just looked at the text of the Budapest Memorandum. The US, the UK, and Russia all agreed in that memorandum to "refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine".

Russia is the country who broke that commitment, when they invaded Ukraine in 2014. I wouldn't say that the US or the UK broke that commitment, because they haven't used force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine.

There's another commitment in there saying that the US, the UK, and Russia will "seek immediate United Nations Security Council action to provide assistance to Ukraine... if Ukraine should become a victim of an act of aggression". It seems there were UNSC meetings - like this one - shortly after Russia sent troops into Crimea. If you think the US and UK didn't do enough in this regard then fair enough, but I don't their actions were as bad as Russia invading Ukraine.

[–] 3abas@lemmy.world 2 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

Semantics.

The point is Ukraine wouldn't be in this position if they didn't give up their Nukes, and they gave up their Nukes because they believed more would be done.

[–] moderatecentrist@feddit.uk 1 points 30 minutes ago

I'm talking about what was actually agreed to. To me it seems that Russia quite clearly abandoned its commitments within the Budapest Memorandum. I don't think you can say that the US and the UK did, unless you're saying that those two countries didn't do enough within the UN Security Council to back Ukraine.

Surely the primary country to blame for this situation is Russia. Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014. Western countries didn't invade Ukraine.

[–] Zron@lemmy.world 2 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

Western powers promised Ukraine protection against attack or invasion by themselves and Russia in the December 5th, 1994 Budapest Memorandum.

The US, France, UK, Russia, and China all agreed not to invade Ukraine and in fact to provide protection, and in exchange, Ukraine gave up their nukes.

Russia violated this just 20 years later when they invaded and stole Crimea from Ukraine, and now 30 years later they are trying to conquer the entire country.

Thats why everyone is so hell bent on providing support for Ukraine. Not just because it’s the right thing to do, but because they were promised protection by world powers.

[–] moderatecentrist@feddit.uk 2 points 1 hour ago

I looked at the text of the Budapest Memorandum. The main commitments seem to be a commitment to not use force against Ukraine, and a commitment to "seek immediate United Nations Security Council action to provide assistance to Ukraine... if Ukraine should become a victim of an act of aggression".

I absolutely hope that every country supports Ukraine and helps them at the moment. I'm just saying that it seems to me that Russia is the one who has abandoned its commitments within the Budapest Memorandum. I don't know if you can say that the US and the UK have (Wikipedia says that France and China gave assurances in separate documents, not in the Budapest Memorandum). Although I absolutely hope that the US will take a more pro-Ukraine stance as soon as possible.

load more comments (4 replies)
load more comments (7 replies)